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W3TDH

Elmer
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Everything posted by W3TDH

  1. You wanted us to provide complete information? If we did that we would have to have you terminated with extreme prejudice. Kidding aside I want to thank you for your work. Tom Horne
  2. The radio would draw from both the battery and the charger adapter so you would have to have a current limiter in the adapter line. That would prevent the radio from overdrawing from the charging circuit and opening its fuse. Check your owner's manual to see if there is an unused fused output in the cabin fuse holder which is usually located under the dash or in the side wall of the driver's foot well. The cabin fuse holder is often supplied by a pair of large gauge conductors that will readily handle the 23 amperes of current drawn by the radio during transmit. It is fairly likely that you will find a unused fused terminal that will at least handle the charging circuit. For any battery type with the possible exception of Lithium Iron Phosphate the charging can be done by a circuit from the alternator but you need to use a battery isolator which will prevent the Starting, Lighting, and Ignition loads from drawing current from the radio battery. With an isolator in the circuit no other load in the vehicle can draw current from the radio battery. Depending on the chemistry of the radio battery you may need a charge controller to prevent the battery being charged at too high a current. That will avoid the charging circuit damaging the battery. If you have more questions please ask. Tom Horne W3TDH 240-688-8590
  3. I called Safety way directly and I sent them a follow up email. Their telephone person, who may have been some sort of manager or even an owner, said they would send me the O-rings for the 2, 5 gallon, DOT approved, cans that I already have as well as any local vendor and the factory direct price for purchasing directly from them. The factory direct price is usually the "Suggested Retail Price" which is nearly always higher than the actual market price when buying from a local distributor or retailer. I'll let everyone know what I find out. Tom W3TDH
  4. W3TDH

    LIDs

    Regardless of it's origins a "Lid" has come to mean any malicious or careless operator who has no regard for other operators and considers her/his needs or wants as inherently more important than common courtesy or good operating practice. A person who calls a newly licensed operator a "No Code Phony" is an excellent example of a LID! An operator who calls a rare contact on their calling frequency instead of calling "10 up" or any frequency the rare contact asked be used for replies is a quintessential LID. Tom W3TDH
  5. Walt WA3LTJ The following does not negate anything you have written here. I'm embarrassed to realize that what you have written here is absolutely true. I used to harass my Global Majority Fire and Rescue colleagues, whenever we were out on the road, to wave at any child that looked like them. They put up with it because I asked them if a child waving at a fire truck shouldn't see someone that looks at least a little like them waving back. In order for all the children to see something as a possibility for their lives that possibility must be made visible. So everything you wrote is true for me. I will just need some time to figure out what to do about it. I'm presently serving as a local Emergency Coordinator within the ARRL's Amateur Radio Emergency Service® (ARES®). I would have a hard time leaving the organization as it is the only game, in town or out, that is focused on communications support for an any relief agency and has the flexibility to go anywhere it is needed. Emergency Service has been the primary focus of my life from early on. The problem I see with standing up an alternative organization is that there are very high barriers to entry in that field of endeavor. Served Agencies and Emergency Managers are, understandably, allergic to conflict within and between organizations that offer to serve as assisting or cooperating agencies to carry out THEIR work. That's right it is their work. If we truly want to assist THEM in carrying out THEIR work in assisting the survivors of a disaster who are THEIR clients we have to learn to do what They need done with a high enough level of skill and cooperative spirit to be fully effective. It cannot be about us. We are an instrument that is either suitable or unsuitable to use in getting THEIR work done. The choice of which we are is, at least partially, up to us! ARES® is not yet good at that role but they could be and I'm working hard to try and move the volunteers I have been assigned to coordinate in that direction. Tom W3TDH [Sea Scout Promise] I promise that at all times, in all places, and in all circumstances I will seek to uphold the motto of sea rescue. Aid the helpless first. [Emergency workers promise.] I promise to perform the duties assigned to me without preference or prejudice. I will hold the the public necessity before my personal gain and public safety equal to my personal welfare. These things I do so that others may live.
  6. The best part for me was that in every episode John Banner, as Sargent Schultz, would say "I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing" or some variation thereof. In later episodes he would sometimes add "I was not even here!" Tom Horne W3TDH
  7. My only current disagreement with the ARRL is that I think their doing a poor job on providing applicable recognized training and certification measures for the Amateur Radio community. Their "Standardized Training Program and Emergency Communicator Individual Task Book" is an embarrassment to those of us trying to work within the Amateur Radio Emergency Service framework. I wouldn't want anyone in the Emergency Management business to see it because it would make ARES a laughing stock. It is a Frankenstein Monster that attempts to put a Training Plan, Position Task Book. training catalog for a variety of positions, and 2 Job Guides into 8 pages. The writer had obviously never seen a Position Task Book nor read the FEMA Guidance on the preparation of one. I was detailed to the Davis Development Center of the then California Department of Forestry in the Division of Natural Resources when FIRESCOPE was born. [I think it still has the prize for the most awkward acronym ever devised in English.] FIRESCOPE is supposed to be Fire Resources of California Organized for Potential Emergencies. It is generally acknowledge as the forebear of the Incident Command System. As I was only a seasonal firefighter I had no role in that process but every time the participants were at meals or on break I would listen to their thoughts as much as I could. One of the things that came out of that program was uniform description of fire suppression working positions. That way a Heavy Fire Equipment Operator; lovingly known as a Cat Skinner because he could operate a Caterpillar Bulldozer as skillfully as a pack stock handler could use a whip, was still a heavy fire equipment operator whether they worked for the National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, Department of Indian Affairs, California Division of Forestry; Now Cal Fire; and so on. [A pack stock handler is often called a mule skinner because they can skin a mule alive with their whip to make it do what they need it to do. That sounds brutal but the pack stock handlers have to be able to deliver resources to a fire line without the stock running off to their deaths at the smell of smoke.] The participants in the creation of FIRESCOPE decided that Interchangeability of personnel was more important then which agency had initial attack responsibility for the point of origin of the fire. An Engine Foreman was the equivalent of a fire captain. A crew boss was the same as a Crew Leader... The process is to identify a job that requires unique skill set. Identify the needed skills, develop a training plan and experience list to teach those skills, and write a Position Task Book to record the completion of the training and the demonstration of the required skills for each individual seeking to qualify for that position in the Integrated Command System. Under this system ALL Position Task Books are individual. Positions are identified (Typed) so that a person to fill it can be requested from any agency that has a qualified person available. By the way if anyone can tell me what an Emergency Communicator actually is my hat's off to you. I find that job title to be absolutely meaningless. I made appointments with senior managers from each of the organizations with which the ARRL has a memorandum of understanding that has a presence in the area for which I am the Emergency Communicator to ask them what they would expect an Emergency Communicator to do for them. Not one of them included anything having to do with the operation of radios to handle local and/or long distance messages. The answers these senior local managers gave covered quite a range of abilities. Some examples were: restore internet service, repair facility telephone system, install a local area network, answer telephones and take complete actionable messages, and the list goes on. That last one was kinda close to an auxiliary radio operators job except it would be done by telephone. So add some field telephones to your equipment cache and run a couple of phone lines outside the facility you are trying to support to a radio operating position, and assign one of these mythical Emergency Communicators to staff those phones, prepare messages on ICS forms for signature by the originating served agency official, transport the message by Facsimile, Local Area Net, or sneaker net to the Radio Operator (RADO), file copies 2&3 of the form leaving the original; page 1; with the originator, confirm message transmission to the originator, and move on to the next message. OK [RANT/]; meaning rant mode off. Tom Horne W3TDH
  8. I heard my Dad quietly say to my mom "Hon Don't use the phone during a thunderstorm." After that every time it thundered my mom would stay away from the telephone by going into a different room. She would also grab a towel and order anyone in the bath or shower out of the bathroom NOW! She wasn't going to give Thor another shot at her if she could help it. What then happened is that my Dad, who was a plumber and believed nearly everything could be solved with a little more solder, tore out all the galvanized pipe that he could get to in the basement and installed all copper. He used the copper cold water pipe to bond everything electric together and that included the telephone company's lightning protector and line fuse block. He pulled the telephone ground rod out without much effort at all. It was 3 feet long! That's how I found out that my dad had started out in the crafts as an electrician. He switched to plumbing when he found out that the plumbers union had a better wage scale than electrical workers did. He brought home a drive in well point and he, my brother, and I took turns using a sliding hammer to drive 20 foot of 2 inch pipe into the earth in the stony soil of southern New Hampshire. Once we got that thing driven my dad filled it with water and rigged one of the downspouts to keep it full. He connected that to the plumbing using copper pipe, solder to threaded adapters, and bronze bonding fittings. He added a jumper around the pressure tank to make the line to the water well part of the whole thing. Tom Horne
  9. 5&1/2 decades ago my mother was on the phone in our home in Derry New Hampshire. There was a tremendous boom. The wall telephone flew across the room and buried itself into the lath and plaster wall. Mom sat there stunned for a minute and then realized that she was still holding the handset. She threw that away from herself. I observed that since the phone was no longer attached to the phone wires there was no more danger. The look she gave me made me find somewhere else to be. Tom W3TDH
  10. An AB-86 military surplus antenna mast with base insulator and whip adapter at top with 15 foot whip. 55 foot vertical with an Icom AH-4 Antenna Coupler. Packed antenna fits in the trunk/boot of compact and larger vehicles. Will fit in sub compact hatch back lengthwise. QTY 3 units. Military Surplus GRA-50 dipole adjustable on both sides from 160 Meters to 6 meters. QTY 6 units Buddipole™ Deluxe Package, QTY 1
  11. W3TDH

    Grounded

    While I'm thinking about it I should mention that it is considered perfectly good practice to drive a Ground Rod below ground level and cover it with a large PVC pipe section of ~1 foot in length with a female threaded adapter on it. Once you have it set at ground level just below the vegetation, mulch, gravel or what have you screw in a pug style end into the threaded adapter. It is relatively landscaping equipment proof and provides access to check the condition of the connections and measure the impedance to ground during annual system checks. Tom W3TDH
  12. W3TDH

    Grounded

    I'm glad that it worked out for you. What are you using as a Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC); US National Electrical Code (NEC) name for the wire that connects your main grounding busbar, Single point bonding busbar, or your antenna entry bonding panel to the grounding rod. If you have any suggestions for connecting lightning arresters directly to ground rods I'd like to know. The ones available from equipment vendors are all north of $50 and that seems excessive. Tom W3TDH
  13. That's too dam close. I'm glad that you were not hurt. Tom W3TDH
  14. When a disaster mitigation effort is ongoing the ARRL's daily bulletin will contain information on the frequencies being used. The do not seem to be consistent about including information on the ARES efforts which are ongoing and I don't know why. Tom W3TDH
  15. That's about right especially with the misspellings. Tom W3TDH
  16. W3TDH

    Grounded

    Is that why I have to wear a size 8 hat? I really do by the way. Tom W3TDH
  17. Propane isn't any better from a fire safety point of view but it can be stored indefinitely up until a transportable cylinder is due for it's every 12 year hydrostatic testing. If the fuel is stored in a stationary tank then the ASME testing interval is probably different and I certainly don't remember what it is. Diesel fuel is much safer to handle than either gasoline or propane, which are both Flammable, because it is only a combustible liquid and will not ignite at normal ambient temperature and pressure. You do get back into a long term storage issue since it is vulnerable to the growth of fungus that will plug up fuel filters and injectors. Diesel must be treated with anti fungal additives when stored long term. Tom Horne W3TDH
  18. W3TDH

    Grounded

    I would make one suggestion based on >40 years as an electrician and spending 3 years installing remote communications shelters on ridges and mountain tops and adjacent to existing telephone exchanges to support several different communications system build-outs. Install 2 more driven rods and bond them to the one/s you already have. Site them at least twice the length of the longer rod away from each other. Once they are bonded together they will make an effective Grounding Electrode. If you want to go further and make the system nearly bombproof you can improve on the 3 rod system. Since you need to bury the bonding conductors between the 3 rods and the Grounding Electrode Conductor which connects that electrode to the single point bonding busbar in the shack you may want to consider installing them in the manner devised by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Instead of just the 1 foot or so of burial that will protect the rods, rod bonding conductors, and the EGC from physical damage make the trench a minimum of 30 inches deep. Instead of using the minimum #6 AWG conductor for the GEC and the rod bonding conductors run bare #2 AWG copper conductor between the rods and back to the connection to the Station's Single Point Bonding Busbar. What you will have built is the equivalent of Ground Ring. The only thing that keeps it from being an National Electrical Code compliant "Ground Ring" is that it does not circle the entire structure. That is of no importance in the case of a house because the minimum length of the ground ring around a smaller structure such as a pump house or guard post shelter is 20 feet and the one you would be installing would be 32 feet long between the 3, 8 foot long, rods plus the length of the buried portion of the GEC back to the station's single point bonding busbar. NIST's tests showed that form of grounding electrode installation is sufficient to protect the home's electrical system from surges and spikes generated outside the building including lightning when it is used as one of the building's electrical system Grounding Electrodes. The addition of a whole house surge protector will also protect the electronic portions of the system as well as the connected electronic loads from externally generated surges. Tom Horne W3TDH
  19. Yes I do see what you mean. So why does the Emergency Manager want vetted, swift water first responder qualified operators, self sealing inflatable boats, and water jet propulsion? Why do they want them wearing high float Rescuer Personal Flotation Devices (PFD)s, water rescue helmets, and dry suits? I bet you can guess the answer. They don't want to invest the limited number of previously vetted and properly equipped water rescue teams in the rescue of would be rescuers. That is why the United States Coast Guard will use the unsafe voyages law to keep such persons out of the affected area. But if you are a Swift Water First Responder who is fully equipped with the right kind of boat, motor, and protective equipment then the Coast Guard would not even be concerned about your presence. If you look and behave like you know what your doing they would not try to apply the Unsafe Voyages Act to you since they have plenty of other work to do. Tom Horne W3TDH
  20. That really is only good management. Freelancing entails real additional risks but more importantly it sharply erodes the good will that local amateur radio leadership will have invested a lot of effort in establishing with the local emergency management staff. Even if what you try to do is not in conflict with what is already being done it could cause confusion and disputes over what the relief priorities are. As an example effected people might appreciate access to their money to purchase food, fuel, and similar items but may also resent the delivery of services to a bank but not the affected population. When people are under the stress of being displaced from their homes and/or having lost many irreplaceable unique possessions they are not going to be capable of taking in the rational for the resource priority decisions that are made by emergency managers. A good example of that sort of misunderstanding was that, in the aftermath of the Nor'easter that was generated by Hurricane Sandy, New York city residents complained bitterly that the huge generators that had been brought in to support the then cancelled New York marathon were left idle instead of being used to supply alternate power. That is understandable if you look at it from the point of view of a layperson who does not understand the scale of the outages relevant to the size of the generators. The units in place looked huge to a lay person. How are they to know that the capacity they represent is not a patch on the coat of the actual need. Additionally it is hard to understand that the power line worker/hours that would go into such an effort would, while aiding hundreds of affected persons, would markedly slow the restoration of normal service to thousands. Each of the complainants probably believed that their problems could be solved by using those generators without understanding how few people could actually be helped by any one of those units. In the midst of all that some freelancers show up make an arrangement with someone outside the emergency management staff and then deliver service in a manner which appears, to part of the community, to be biased. The freelancers will have planted a powder keg in the middle of the EMAs public information efforts with a very short fuse already lit. EMA management and staff will not appreciate the accusations that will fly their way. That in turn could burn the recognized communications providers down to their ankles and they will truly hate you for doing that to them. There is, however, one attitude on the part of some emergency managers which I feel is not reasonable in any way shape of form. That is the expectation that some of them have that no one who has volunteered with their agency should provide services to anyone else in any form. Some of them expect such volunteers to remain available to them even in the absence of any present need in the community they are responsible to. I frankly do not see that position as reasonable. People are naturally going to want to exercise their skills in the roll which is immediately needed. Tom Horne W3TDH
  21. Safeway Manufacturing makes a rectangular safety can which has the guards required for use in transportation. These are easier to carry on a pack board and to carry in a vehicle. The pouring hose can be removed during transport. There are round bottom safety cans available with guards from Justrite but they are not as easy to transport because the shape takes up more space in a vehicle. Tom W3TDH
  22. On the subject of fuel supplies, if you are going into a large disaster area you will need a way to get fuel out of underground tanks without needing electrical power. That is especially true if the rules, governing your particular transportation means, prevent you from carrying any fuel with you. One remedy, which worked for me, was to make a long suction pipe for a rotary vane drum pump like the one shown in this photograph. The reason for using of a rotary vane pump is that it is a positive displacement pump. That means that it can pump any fluid including air. By taking air out of the intake pipe you lower the pressure inside the pipe so that the 14.7 pounds of normal atmospheric pressure can force the fuel up the pipe. No foot valve is used so that when the pump is to be taken apart the fuel in the intake pipe will readily drain back into the underground tank. A small air inlet valve just below the pump can be used to allow air to enter the pipe from the top so as to reduce spillage when the intake pipe is detached from the pump. Some rotary vane pumps can be turned in reverse to empty the fuel in the pump body back down the intake pipe. Use 5 foot long pieces of threaded rigid aluminum conduit which will connect to each other using aluminum couplings. Aluminum is used for it's lower weight. The first piece will have to have a ~6 inch capped stub out of one end of a straight condulet; see photograph; to keep the intake up off of the very bottom of the tank. That avoids taking sludge up with the fuel. The condulet will be the suction strainer for fuel flowing into the intake pipe. The opening of the condulet can be covered with course screening to keep larger semi solid contaminants out of the fuel. Using a jig saw cut all but the rim out of the condulet's cover. Place screening, such as 1/8 inch hardware cloth, over the opening and fasten the cover's rim over it. There is no reason to try to seal the edge because any leakage will be through gaps that are smaller than the 1/8 inch square openings in the hardware cloth. With the conduit made up in 5 foot lengths it will be transportable. Attach rolls of Teflon pipe sealing tape to the drum pump's handle using Ty-Raps®. I will be needed to make an airtight seal when the conduit lengths are assembled into an intake pipe. 2 V jaw pipe pliers should also be part of this kit. Tom Horne W3TDH
  23. So you go out to the garage, grab a gasoline fueled trimmer, and start it up to remove some weeds from beside the house. I runs fine at first but then seizes up because of the gasohol which dissolves the oil film off the cylinder wall. Your $100 + trimmer is now a piece of scrap metal. That same affect can take out your $1000 inverter generator if it is one of the ones which has a 2 cycle engine. (Ha! You thought I was straying too far from disaster radio operations didn't you.) There are remedies that can be applied; and indeed must be applied if you run a 2 cycle engine long enough to get it good and hot; to prevent this from happening to you an hour and a half into a deployment. One is to add an additive to the gasoline, on top of the preservative that you already added, which prevents the alcohol from dissolving the mixed oil out of the burning fuel too quickly. Another is to buy gasoline for such engines, which does not have alcohol added to it, from a refinery or distributor. Minimum quantity offered will be at least a 35 gallon drum and it will cost 1&1/2 the price of Gasohol. You also have to fill portable containers that are acceptable in road transportation from the barrel/s that it comes in. Third you can buy unaltered gasoline in 1 to 5 gallon cans from a home center or other retailer. It will do the job but it is much more expensive than gasoline fuel station retail pricing. If you must travel by common carrier transportation for a deployment the additive that corrects for the presence of alcohol in the fuel would be the only remedy. The additive itself is a flammable liquid so it can only be transported in very small quantities if at all. That probably makes It a good idea to not use 2 cycle engines as generator engines for emergency communications. Tom Horne W3TDH
  24. I should have been more clear that having the concrete strap buried only 6 inches deep would only be done if NOTHING else will work. I based that approach on what we had to do at remote communications equipment shelters and their towers which were installed on the bare rock of the available high ground. 6 inch wide copper strap would run out in several directions for 50 to 100 feet. That would end up being hundreds of feet of copper strap and was very expensive to acquire and install. See below for a fully effective and US National Electric Code compliant way to use a shallow trench. Yes the rods can be under a patio or walkway if they are buried at least 30 inches below the finished surface. To be far more effective they would be part of the patio, walkway, or both. If you are pouring new concrete you can save a lot of work and improve the Grounding quite a bit by having 20 or more feet of half inch reinforcing rod or at least 20 feet of bare #2AWG copper wire placed 2 inches above the bottom of the forms before you pour. Either of these makes a very effective Grounding Electrode. The electrode needs to end up encased in 2 inches of concrete in all directions. The simplest way to do that is to make the forms 5 inches or more deep. If you must lessen the amount of concrete used you can cut trenches along the path of the electrode to make just that portion of the concrete 2 inches out from the electrode in all directions. That is tedious to do but it would save on the amount of concrete that must be poured. It is usually much easier all around to just build the walkway or patio 5 inches thick. Set up wire cradles under the electrode to keep its bottom edge at least 2 inches above the bare earth. The electrodes are then connected to the grounding window, or bulkhead; which is just 2 different names for the same assembly; of the operating positions antenna lead in entry point or to the Service Equipment of the electrical system by a 4AWG copper wire GEC connected to the rebar electrode using a clamp which is listed for encasement in concrete. The GEC also ends up encased in concrete until it comes out the side of the form at any place convenient to either the the operating position's feed line entry point, the electric Service Equipment,or both. By both I mean that if the walk way you are pouring were to go around the corner of the house from the electrical Service Equipment to where the antenna feed line will enter the house through the grounding window it will provide the Grounding Electrode System for both and being all one system would not need any additional work to bond 2 separate GESs to each other. If six inches is as deep as you can actually dig then make it 6 inches wide as well and install a concrete encased electrode in the trench. The electrodes you can choose from are 20 feet or more of bare #2AWG copper wire or at least 20 feet of 1/2 inch reinforcing rod. Either of these would be fully effective and National Electric Code (NEC) compliant. If you use reinforcing rod it need not be a single piece. It can be made up of shorter lengths of rod that are connected together with the usual wire ties done in 2 places. To make the ties in 2 places you overlap the rod ends enough to tie them twice. 1 foot of overlap would assure that there would be enough contact between the 2 pieces for an adequate connection. The end to end length of the overlapped rods needs to come to 20 feet or more. Use wire saddles to support whichever one of the electrodes you use at least 2 inches above the bottom of the trench. Connect a reinforcing rod with a Grounding Electrode Conductor, that is #4 AWG or larger copper wire, to the Service Equipment’s grounding busbar; or to one of the other acceptable connection points specified in the NEC; or to the Grounding Window of the operating positions antenna lead in entry point. The Service Equipment grounding busbar is merely the most commonly used connection point for the Electrical System. If you use #2 AWG copper wire as your grounding electrode the easiest GEC to install would be the #2 wire itself. Have it be long enough to reach to were it will be connected to the system to be grounded. If you reduced the size of the GEC to #4 wire, which is the minimum size required by the NEC, you would need to connect it to the #2 wire that is the Grounding Electrode itself by a non reversible connection such as a high pressure crimp connection. Making that type of connection requires tools you probably don't have. It's just easier to make the #2 copper wire long enough to serve as both the electrode and the GEC. Once you have the electrode supported at least 2 inches above the bottom of the trench you fill the trench with concrete until it is at least 2 inches above the the top of the electrode. What you will have built will be a fully NEC compliant and very effective "Concrete Encased Electrode."
  25. If you could manage a 6 inch trench for the bonding conductor between the 2 Grounding Electrode Systems (GES) the soil back filled into that trench would protect your home from side flash that might ignite a fire. You could run that bonding conductor either in the ground or on it between the 2 GESs. Are you supplied by a public utility water system or do you take your water from a well? A well with a metal liner makes a great Grounding Electrode. There has to be some sort of Grounding Electrode System for the Electrical Service. If the installing electrician used an underground metal water line as a grounding electrode and there was not a second Grounding Electrode available then Installing a second electrode was required. The one most often used is 2 driven rods at least 8 foot long and separated by at least 6 feet. If He/she struck rock bottom before the rod is entirely in the earth then the National Electric Code (NEC) allows them to be driven at a 45 degree angle. If they still struck rock the NEC permits the rods to be buried in trenches which are at least 30 inches deep and at least 6 feet apart. The other choices include a 2 foot square copper plate buried at least 30 inches deep. If you have soil so shallow that no excavation that is 30 inches deep is possible then you would have to dig a trench which is at least 6 inches deep and 20 foot long and then run the widest copper strap you can afford in the bottom of the trench. The minimum width would be 2 inches wide and 0.0322 inches thick. That would give you a cross sectional area which exceeds the cross sectional area of 2AWG gauge copper wire. If you use 0.022 thickness you would need nominal 3 inch wide copper strap. The thinnest copper strap commonly available, 0.012 inches, would need to be 5 inch nominal width but you are more likely to find 6 inch available for purchase. The widest strap is always the best choice but you will have to see which one you could afford the needed 20 foot length of. I do my cost comparisons of the 3 commonly available widths from the prices on the Georgia Copper web site and then shop all the sources I can find to get the best price. Right now the least cost option from Georgia Copper is 3" x .022" x 25 feet $111.00. Yes I do realize that's somewhat steep.

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